A female commenter over at BP’s place posted a big rant about the “whiny, bitter guys online”. She made the claim that if a man is bitter or criticizes the dating script in western culture, it’s because he’s experienced a ton of rejections, and the only reason he has experienced those rejections is because he went “out of his league” and kept trying to get chicks that were “too hot” for him.
Apparently if bitter men (critics of the fucked up dating dynamics) only lowered their sights and stopped chasing the “hotties” (her words), these men would have no issue with the unfairness of the way dating works for men.
She says that such a guy has tons of “average women” who are interested in him, and would love to date him – its just that he’s too busy chasing the supermodels, so he doesn’t notice all the average women around him clamoring for his attention…
AlekNovy posted this response:
Let me answer the “guys only chase hot babes, and ignore the average/uggo women” point you brought up…
You are correct that many of the bitter men around the net are average guys who went around only hitting on the hottest women, ignored the average ones, and then went to complain no women like them.
It is true that when a guy complains that no women like him, it’s because he has experienced tons of rejections. However, the main reason he’s bitter is because NO WOMEN HAVE EVER SHOWN HIM INTEREST. That’s the point. EVER, in his entire life!
Your point that there’s a ton of average women who WOULD be interested if he asked them out, is irrelevant, because these lazy women are PROACTIVELY HIDING their interest. I don’t count subtle signals as hair flicks, accidental bumps and subtle hinting as “clamoring for his attention”, because that shit is only visible to women. On the actual surface-level, obvious communication level, these womeen PROACTIVELY DO HIDE their interest and act cool, uninterested and indifferent.
THEIR THEORETICAL INTEREST is IRRELEVANT when they don’t show it in CLEAR UNAMBIGIOUS ways, and when they proactively hide interest and play games. Women FORCE this SADISTIC ritual onto men where the man is forced to gather massive amounts of rejection before he gets a woman who finally admits interest back.
All of this could end TOMMOROW if women stopped playing the plausible deniability, interest-hiding game.
Basically, there is a MASSIVE thing you’re not seeing here…
You say the average guys were not hitting on the average women… BUT WHAT YOU ARE MISSING IS THAT… Those average women were ALSO not hitting on those average guys either! In other words, those average women were sitting around with an ENTITLED attitude of FEMALE PRIVILEGE, sitting around going “Guys need to approach me, kiss me first, ask me out first etc, show first clear sign of interest etc”.
See, the thing is. Being male is this massive pool of doing all the work, taking tons of rejections and seeing little gratitude for it. That changes little depending on whom you are pursuing.
– If an average guy goes out and hits on a 100 hotties, 97 will reject him.
– If an average guy goes out and hits on a 100 average women, 94 will reject him.
DO YOU SEE? While it is true that He’d have DOUBLE the success if he went for average women (3 women vs 6 women), the big picture is both involve tons of pain, tons of unreciprocicated effort etc (97 rejections vs 94 rejections).
The main issue is women’s laziness and passivity and plausible deniability. Those 6 average women will not hit on him, ask him out, etc etc. They are just as lazy as entitled as the 3 hot ones. Make sense?
If average women were less lazy, your point would hold more value, but as it stands, with women’s laziness, there’s little incentive for men to go for entitled average women.
The REASON these men are bitter is NOT because they shot out of their league. The reason they’re bitter is that they’re SICK of the system women have created and upkeep, a system that forces men to endure pain, humiliation, rejection and have to do all the work.
See “Dungone’s tiger analogy”.
Stoner with a boner added this great point…
this is something hard to articulate, but…
In my limited attempts trying to pick up women…
(well I hate the PUA # system but I’ll use it to simply illustrate this point)
I’d attempt a so-called 9, she’d let me down easy, “I have a BF.”
I’d attempt a so-called 7.5, she wouldn’t be as nice in her rejection, perhaps downright sarcastic.
I’d attempt a so-called 6 (who should probably be in my “league”)–those were some of the most humiliating experiences. Sometimes those women would go out of their way to be viscious. They’d even make fun of me to their friends and be all, “yeah, right.” They’d make sure I was humiliated.
This is a point everyone of us at mating-selfishness can vouch for. Our team ranges from lifetime celibates to guys with triple-digit-partner counts, and we come from a dozen countries. We can all vouch for this point. When you pursue less-attractive women, you not only get a very tiny relative benefit in terms of number of rejections, but the rejections are actually harasher, and more soul-destroying. They tend to be much ruder and meaner than the attractive ones. So the table should probably be updated like this…
– If an average guy goes out and hits on a 100 hotties, 97 will reject him, mostly in a polite way.
– If an average guy goes out and hits on a 100 average women, 94 will reject him, mostly in a rude way.
– If an average guy goes out and hits on a 100 below-average women, 90 will reject him, mostly in a humiliating and harsh way.
I ask the female reader: If you were a man, would you choose 97 polite rejections or 90 humiliating ones? Be honest…
Strategy A) If an average guy goes out and hits on a 100 hotties, 97 will reject him.
Strategy B) If an average guy goes out and hits on a 100 average women, 94 will reject him.
This is hugely important. Whether a guy chooses strategy A or B, a rejection will likely be conveyed and interpreted as these girls being “out of his league.” That includes the outright rejections as well as any subsequent breakups, getting cheated on, passive aggressive mind games, etc. The worst place for a guy to be, mentally, is to allow himself to think that he can’t even find something from the bottom of the barrel. And men absolutely do need impressive amounts of self-confidence to go through with the 100 or so rejections they will face before finding someone of girlfriend material.
This whole thing is a double bind that passive women create for themselves. When they adopt a passive dating strategy, they are by definition asking men to hit on hotter women than themselves. They want these super-confident men to give all the attention to them, but they end up bitching about those men hitting on hotter women than themselves, instead. It actually makes no rational sense for anyone but the hottest women to be passive, just like it makes no rational sense for all but the hottest men to expect women to hit on them.
It actually makes no rational sense for anyone but the hottest women to be passive, just like it makes no rational sense for all but the hottest men to expect women to hit on them.
If this sentence by Dungone seems contradictory, let me clear up the confusion. It seems like on the one hand he’s saying average women should hit on average men, but then he says only the hottest men should be hit on.
Those are the extremes. What he means is that only the hottest men/women can expect a less-attractive pursuer to do all the work. When it comes to equals, it makes sense for the effort to be equal. Average women should expect to do 50% of the work if they want to get together with an average man.
As it stands currently in western culture, average women expect average men to do 100% of the work and 100% of the effort and pursuing. Which as dungone points out, will only result in them screwing themselves over. If a man has to put in the same effort to get an average woman as he does a hottie, why would he bother with average women?
Dr. Mangina Love Posted some similar bullshit
P.S – DoctorManginaLove – a highly trafficked feminist PUA that all the major feminists endorse and love also keeps promoting this same myth-nonsense. He says that men and women have the same power and privilege in dating and ability to get laid on a whim. Its just that men keep chasing after supermodels. If the average man simply lowered his standards, he’d be able to get laid on a whim too! To quote the lying asshole…
“Of course the idea that women have it easy and men have to fight for their right to paaaaaaaahrtay requires some willful blindness; yes, women can get laid with minimal effort… but so can men. It’s very simple: men just have to lower their standards… just as women would have to if they wanted sex on demand.”
Except there is absolutely no evidence of this in real life. You can lower your standards as much as you want (and many men have tried this idiotic advice and tested it deeply) -> the required work is still almost the same. You never reach anything near woman’s “I just have to leave the house to get laid” effort-level no matter how many standards you drop.